I understand "buen vivir" as a collective community and/or territorial life commitment, ideal or philosophy that stands in sharp contrast to capitalism with regard to value, time, space and governance. First, natural resources are valued in an integrated and multidimensional manner. As opposed to looking at a tree as a source of lumber, its capacity to produce fruits, leaves for thatching, bark that can become clothing or bedding, and medication among others are all considered. The same could be said about any other resource and expanse of land. Second, the frame of time considered is not the here and now, as with palm or paper-producing trees, but multigenerational, carried over a long - timeless? - expanse of time. Third, resource governance is territorial - in the Amazon case - or community based - as in the Andes, as opposed to individual. Fourth, is is also well understood that such cannot be insured locally or regionally alone. There's always an arm engaged in structural change nationally and globally.

The cooptation you describe reminds me of Roger Merino’s work in Peru, where he found that “prior consultation” processes for indigenous participation in infrastructure projects actually weakened their ability to affect change. Agents essentially multiplied the number of channels for engagement and grievance, reducing the effectiveness of all of them.

That happens in Peru and other places. Who the interlocutors participating are and how they get into the decision making process must be looked at. I remember consulting with an indigenous people's organization around a World Bank proposal to include "prior" consultation, yet there were no funds for people to reach the places where such meetings took place. In the case of Peru, for example, there are well-known organizations and people who continually sell out. The "buen vivir" epistemology demands not just consultation but veto power and finds backing in the United Nations Human Rights Declaration on Indigenous Peoples - differently interpreted in the American North.

What Salmaan is saying, unfortunately, applies to Bolivia, where in the end Morales - while furthering "indigeneity" and buen vivir - gave mining rights that threatetened the lifes of indigenous peoples in the area.

Such a great talk and wonderful comments, Salmaan. Very thought provoking

Thanks Aneel!!

Lissie, great comments above.

Thank you for the fantastic talk & rich discussion! Hope all have a lovely weekend.

Land in Rajasthan and Punjab have been a major force for neoliberalism in India via the Green Revolution and now the new farming bills

yes; i wasn't speaking to the centrality of land in community, but of the dispossession of land in the process of people becoming neoliberal subjects.

Yes, Aneel, having grown up on a small Midwestern farm in Illinois, I know farmers to be small businessmen — often quite conservative politically, but deeply involved in neoliberal economics.

Yes — absolutely, Salmaan. And there are places in the East (Orissa) where land and “jungles” are central to Maoist and other resisters of state/neoliberal encroachment.

i'm thinking of the enclosure movement -- taking of land that leaves entire communities as the subjects of the neoliberal labor market

Worse still, often those pieces of land put aside in the neoliberal sense of conservation end up becoming subject to rare mineral and oil exploitation.

APPRECIATE the attitude of a positioning of “not knowing “ and recognizing the lack of indigenous voices is something of the long standing genocide and silencing , now emerging in fragility of this survival

I may be mistaken, but the emphasis on rituals is not something I have ever seen in the Amazon, during my 25 years of work there for - not with - indigenous peoples. Andean peoples do seem - in general - tied up with rituals.

I wonder if the most recent Colombian proclamation to include all Venezuelan migrants access to health and social services is an opportunity to 1 enable community based interventions to reach the most vulnerable people and 2. If the rise of social medicine could be sustained or even strengthen.

I’m just finishing an article on Coplamar I can share with you, Cesar.

In the case of the Peruvian Amazon, most such cases of translation blame in subtle ways indigenous peoples and ask of them they make changes in their everyday life. Indigenous peoples, in contrast, state they've been fine until external diseases or imposed conditions of living have come in, with which they do need help help, for that they don't know how to manage them. I'm sorry for writing too much. César is touching on what my work was for 25 yrs. and I'm excited about it.

Gabriella — I’d be interested in your article as well

This was such a wonderful talk. It contributes really meaningfully to work I'm doing on the World Bank/IFC's failures to implement their commitments to indigenous Free Prior and Informed Consent for impacts on their lands, livelihoods and cultures. By redefining "consent", actors in 'development' can bypass the actual will of affected populations. Thank you Cesar, Lissie, and others!

I'm finding today incredibly transformational. I'm very sad that I have to leave for another meeting! Thank you Cesar, Saalman, Michael, and all....

Thanks Mike

Gracias por la excelente platica y conversatorio! Saludos desde Mexico!

I must leave as well — thank you all — I learned a lot in today’s talk

thank you for this very interesting view of the complex situation of south american social medicine

Thank you for such a wonderful and inspiring talk, Cesar! I’m excited to read your new book. It’s an honor to be your former student!

Cesar, thank you for this wonderful talk. So rich, and certainly a trigger for so much thinking and conversation. Unfortunately, I have to leave for another commitment.

Thank you so much for this engaging talk; and entering into buen vivid as a process - our shared lived experience in listening

Thanks, Margoux

Thank you!

Thank you for this fascinating and inspiring discussion!